Wonderful job, GB, thank you for this.
"My 95 these to the Russian Kettlebell Challenge"
This is an e-mail I sent to a DD executive that I believed might listen. He did listen and did agree with some but not all. Apparently some of this was forwarded to the Great One [Pavel Tsatsouline, the man who brought the kettlebell to the United States, and gave it a bad name- Will]. This was sent in November.
I present this for your consideration and possibly for your amusement. Again, I have no intention to change the RKC System. I am more than happy to walk away quietly into the night. Many of the things I list below where things that always bothered me but I dismissed them and went against my gut instinct. Other things have come out as I’ve grown as a trainer and RKC has grown as a commodity. RKC II was a huge eye opener for me. I was really shocked at how many people were injured and how many didn’t move very well.
Movement:
What I’ve seen over the last few years in myself, my clients and my fellow RKCs is that a majority of us were starting to move worse as our training progressed.
If a system (RKC) is so traumatic to the body that it needs a system (CK-FMS or Joint Mobility/Fast & Loose) to correct it, how good is that system?
It is inefficient to train in a system that needs high maintenance. Ten minutes of movement prep and joint mobility before a fifteen minute workout doesn’t work for most people.
Fast & Loose drills “shake out” residual tension. They wouldn’t be needed if there wasn’t residual tension.
CK-FMS wants to show me videos of babies moving around. Great, if you want to base a training system on a newborn’s motor learning then you have to acknowledge two things.
Babies learn without coaching or reverse engineering.
They also learn from gross movement first then fine (maybe the movement prep should be at the end?).
It seems like everyone has a problem with one or more of the following: “dorsiflexion mobilization”, “t-spine mobility “, “gluteal amnesia” and “valgus collapse”.
Outside of the get-up the RKC System keeps the ankles pretty rigid (even with squats???), maybe that has something to do with a lack of ankle mobility?
Sitting in a hunched over position at a keyboard will definitely lead to t-spine immobility. That shoulder position seems eerily similar to that of the two arm swing. Could too many two arm swings lock up your t-spine?
We had the best solution for gluteal amnesia, tough love. A good swift kick in the ass took care of that (or a love tap from Toomey). I haven’t seen anything else that tops that, the rest of it is too complicated.
Using the squat as an afterthought may have something to do with higher incidences of “valgus collapse”.
Reverse engineering what the strongest do naturally should mean finding out what makes each person the strongest. The strongest do what they do naturally, because it is NATURAL to them. That’s what makes them the strongest.
The Get-up is a mess. It’s a fun exercise that has many benefits. It doesn’t need to be micro-managed,
Doing a get-up with 75% of your body weight will exposed some imbalances and weaknesses without the high hip bridge.
Is weighted joint mobility a good idea?
All of the FMS tests are unloaded for a reason, using a loaded movement as a diagnostic tool can be dangerous.
It is the only three dimensional movement in the RKC system and they are trying their hardest to make it two dimensional.
Instead of a new topic about rolling patterns, I’ll include this hear. My son rolled with both his arms and legs at the same time from the beginning. He did everything he had to do to roll over.
It is being lost as a great strength exercise.
Using it as a “smoker” (i.e. THE FURNACE) is stupid and dangerous.
Staying in a loaded half kneeling position for an extended period of time is going to hurt.
Slowing it down is just the same as speeding it up. Fatiguing the stabilizers while in motion with a weight overhead doesn’t sound like a good idea to me.
Teaching/Training: I don’t see RKC candidates being prepared very well to train the general population. If a candidate has no other professional fitness experience, all they are really qualified to do is to prepare someone for the RKC Certification Course.
Wall squats are harder for anyone to do than anything in the RKC curriculum. It’s not a progression if no one can do it.
There’s too much emphasis on the swing and the get-up. If somebody comes to you for an intro and all you teach them in one hour is two exercises (and chances are you won’t fully cover both of them), then you are going to have a frustrated client.
“All you need is swings and getups” is ridiculous. That would imply that every human being on this planet with their own different histories, injuries and stressors would need the exact same two exercises. If that’s true, the CK-FMS is not necessary. Just teach everyone the swing and get-up and they will be all set.
The RKC Core Six have so many requirements now that most human beings would not be able to “do them right”.
As the system has “progressed” it has done so at the sake of scalability and accessibility.
I believe that so many standards are being set not for safety or performance but to make it seem like the RKC Instructor has a keen eye for detail and has some intuitive knowledge of the human body.
The general population has no interest in being a power-lifter. They don’t need to train to be one. Most of them want to look different.
An exercise system that makes their goal “incidental” isn’t for them.
Being told that they can’t move towards their goal until they’ve meet certain standards isn’t for them either.
RKC Course Volume: This actually never sat well with me when I’ve went through it or when I’ve been back to assist. The RKC Certification Weekend violates many of the safety guidelines it professes.
It doesn’t take two thousand swings to learn the swing, it is used throughout the weekend to “smoke” people or punish them.
Candidates are taught that it is harder to make someone stronger than to just make them out of breath. They spend a majority of the weekend fried and not stronger.
Using the swing or other exercise as punishment is dangerous, degrading and unproductive. Even the US Army would agree with that.
Do not use extra training and instruction as punitive measures. You must distinguish extra training and instruction from punishment or even the appearance of punishment. Soldiers should have extra training or instruction only as long as they need it to correct deficiencies. If they perceive the training or instruction as punishment, all training and instruction will be degraded and their value jeopardized.
-US Army Field Manual 27-1 Chapter 7
The15:15 VO2 max protocol is about as simple as it gets. Practical application isn’t necessary and considering the volume that the candidates do, it is excessive and dangerous.
The snatch test is a joke and equally dangerous.
The whole weekend, instructors will stress that form is paramount to safety yet they will allow some pretty creative snatches during the test.
Why keep increasing the number when people aren’t even going to do them right?
You want to look for “a base level of conditioning and shoulder mobility”.
Isn’t the entire weekend a test of a base level of conditioning?
Shoulder mobility can be tested with one press each arm or a get-up.
What happens if they fail the test? They have proven to lack sufficient conditioning or shoulder mobility yet they still continue with the rest of the weekend.
The Grad Workout is a lot of fun to participate in and watch. It can be responsibly designed and potential for injury can be reduced. I can also be incredibly dangerous. Shouting out “you are still being tested” doesn’t help much to reduce the risk; the workout should be designed to be challenging yet still safe.
CK-FMS: is too complicated and convoluted. I have no observations, only questions.
How many people have actually met the requirements?
How long does it take for the CK-FMS talk to fizzle out on the forum after each new cert?
How many candidates actually leave understanding what they’ve just been taught?
How many candidates not having met the requirements and without an adequate understanding of the material are now running around claiming they can prevent injuries or improve athletic performance?
HKC is the greatest marketing I’ve ever seen. People are paying $500-$600 to learn three exercises. Awesome.
Responsibility: For years I have heard members of the RKC criticize the professional fitness community. I hear about how fitness professionals are “stupid”, “dangerous” and irresponsible.
Many RKCs aren’t qualified to train people professionally.
There is no requirement for an RKC Candidate to know anything about the human body nor do they have to have any experience as fitness professionals. This is fine as long as you aren’t touting them as the elite of their field (that they just joined).
Being hazed for three days straight while having your movement nitpicked to exhaustion doesn’t qualify someone to be a fitness professional and surely doesn’t make them one of the best. (I say that from experience, RKC was my introduction to this profession. I had much more to learn after that weekend).
More and more candidates are going into the weekend with less than one year of experience training with kettlebells. Many have been using them less than six months. I didn’t send any of my clients to the Downingtown RKC this year because they probably know more about training with kettlebells than some of the candidates.
This is just some of the stuff I’ve had bouncing around in my head and in multiple drafts of my over-dramatic resignation letter that I know nobody wants to read. I can’t teach the system as it is anymore and I surely can’t hold people to standards that I believe are either dangerous or ineffective.
Gary J. Berenbroick
Owner, Instructor
17 S. Valley Road
Paoli, PA 19301
(610)647-4956
info@kettlebells4u.com
Call or e-mail to set up a free consultation and introductory session. Private, semi-private or group training is available with Main Line Life's 2008 Best Personal Trainer on the Main Line.
Awesome. I was leaning towards the HKC/RKC for a while, but after a year of training and working on the moves on my own, I couldn't see any justification in going to one other than meeting other trainers.
ReplyDeleteI can do wall squats to the ground without much effort, but when teaching friends to do the swing, the wall squat rarely helped show them the mechanics behind the move, especially when compared to some simpler alternative moves.
I recently was able to participate as a 'victim' at an RKC (discounted kettlebells); I was told I was snatching too fast and missing some of the benefits of the snatch... ha.
The CK-FMS screens and all the other necessary corrective work can be summed up as cognitive dissonance. After paying $2000 for a cert, it's hard for a person to say it was a bad decision. Awesome email.
Holy Shit! Still, he's not wrong.
ReplyDeleteWhile I don't agree with everything, Gary has A LOT of excellent observations - I think it's been noticed. As with most groups I've ever worked with, there are always some who drink a little too much of the Kool-Aid. Doesn't surprise me that it's grown as the organization has grown.
ReplyDeleteI would guess that tone and demeanor of certs/teams can vary greatly.
I never felt like my kid learning to walk was a gross -> fine motor learning. The thousands of leg raises, kicks, partial crunches, supermans, rolls, stands, and squats that preceded the first step didn't follow that progression as I saw it.
Anyway Gary - I wish you well!
Boris
@ Who Am I?
ReplyDeleteThanks for checkin in. At your age you have a leg up on where i was back then. hell, where i was a year ago!
@ Christine:
ReplyDeleteYes, he and i agree on much of it and his articulation was worth posting since he went to an RKC II and ended up in pain and made some observations via critical thinking. I was too locked into my position as a Senior RKC to make the leap over to an objective position and had to wait until World Record holding grip Athlete Adam Glass called me for three months and was like "Why are you still in pain?" After that, the 20/20 vision helped me make sense of stuff and then plan my egress.
@ Boris:
ReplyDeleteThank you for dropping in.
Something to think about:
How come no one in the world of popular strength training posited that "Tension is strength" before Pavel?
Cheers!
I was surprised there haven't been any comments yet. Thank you all for taking the time to respond.
ReplyDelete@who am i?
"after paying $2000 for a cert, it's hard for a person to say it was a bad decision"
Well put, I've actually experienced that myself in many different areas.
I don't understand CK-FMS and can't understand the explainations I've been given.
@christine
I'm wrong on a few things. There are weaker arguments and some faulty logic in there. It wasn't intended for mass consumption so I didn't put much thought into parts of it. Someone I respected said he would like to know what was on my mind and I sent it to him. There are things in there that I feel very strongly about and I don't need to point out which things, it's obvious.
@Boris
I drank a lot of the Kool Aid and I'm not happy with the results.
I've spoken to some RKCs who said that whatever they don't agree with they don't do. They take a buffet style approach to it. I have no issue with that. An issue does arise at the certifications however. The standards and requirements are pretty detailed. There's no picking and choosing there. The instructors have to teach the system and the candidates have to adhere to it. I can't do that. I can't teach something that I think will have negative consequences and I can't hold people to standards that I think aren't necessary and possibly dangerous.
I never intended for this to be presented as it was but I am happy Will posted this. As I said there are things I feel very strongly about and would hope that at the least I get people to stop and question some things they are doing.
I see your point about the motor learning of an infant. I'm gonna have to think about that a bit. As I said above, some of the things I said above weren't thought out as much as it would have been if I was writing this for the public.
@everyone else
I know you have an opinion. Some of you have contacted me, some have contacted friends of mine.
I would really like to hear from you.
An unchallenged thought is a dangerous thought.
An exercise system that makes your goals “incidental” isn’t for them.
ReplyDeleteBeing told that they can’t move towards their goal until they’ve meet certain standards isn’t for them either.
I love this statement. I spent years and I don't know how much money on TGU's and I now feel they weren't essential for me meeting my goals. I'm sure Will could have found my strengths and weakness with out them. Many of my training sessions were just plan old depressing, but I definitely drank the Kool Aide and I wanted to belong so I was willing to do what needed to be done. The funny part was by the time I mastered them well enough to pass and get certified I hated them and I never do them. I don't consider the money a waste if you do something that leads you to your real truth about yourself then it's money well spent. Now I can look at a training system, do some research (&ask Will)and decide whether it's for me or not. The RKC teaches you better know what your agenda is and stand tall in that truth because the RKC certainly does.
Thanks for sharing; it's nice to hear some validation on the issue.
Pat
@Pat:
ReplyDeleteDepressing? I should have known, rather than forcing the issue. The work we have done in the last few months is impressive and i am glad it has you happy.
Hope we can train 2x this week!
Will and Gary, I follow both of your blogs and enjoy them immensely. Was impressed with Gary's writing in that essay. I'm not an RKC - but I do read and post on the Dragon Door forum occasionally. There is obviously a lot of thought put into what you wrote.
ReplyDeleteTo publicly say that what you spent a lot of time, money, and energy on is - after learning more and experimenting for yourself - not right for you is a hard thing to do.
I think the Gym Movement success stories are really speaking for themselves - and they are increasing each day. There's more than one way to skin a cat - or so the saying goes. But there's probably a "best" way to go about that. Looks like evidence is pointing to Gym Movement as the best way.
Will and Gary:
ReplyDeleteThanks for sharing this.
Gary, you have verbalized what I have thought for years. It is why I could not be convinced to participate in the RKC cert. program. I love training with kettlebells (and TRX), but I have found my own way through the maze by respecting and listening to my body....and by absorbing the knowledge so freely shared by solid warriors such as yourselves.
Good luck on your continuing journey!
Bambi,
ReplyDeletethank you
but
I know warriors, Will is one of them but I am not.
Good luck to you on your journey too